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Drugs?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Virre, Oct 24, 2007.

  1. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    This is a bit of a sensitive topic, so let's try and keep it propaganda free, no matter if you're for or against drugs.
    This topic is about the use and research of various drugs, and the application of these drugs on various areas, such as therapy or philosophy.

    What's your thoughts, and on what drugs?

    Personally, I don't use drugs to get high, I use LSD in order to get answers to metaphysical questions such as how the Universe looks when the spectator is objective.
    My main goal with the use of this drug is to reach the Ego Death, in order to obtain completely free will. Once I have washed off everything that has been inprinted on me, I can be "reborn" more enlightened.

    I also think that this could be used in therapy, exactly how I'm not sure though. But a friend of mine had an experience in which he lived through several of his childhood traumas and when he had gotten through those feelings, he described himself as feeling cleansed.

    I do not belive we should legalize any drugs at the moment, I think we should start by allowing scientists to do more research on the subject as it is dangerously just to throw something like this into the public without all the facts.

    I especially look forward to hearing punkydew's and commyaji's opinion on this, as they seem to be science students, but everyone's thought on this matter is appreciated.

    I should also add that I would never use a drug that is taken intravenously, nor would I use heroine, cocain, crack, ecstasy, meth, amfetamin or dmx.

    Please take this topic seriously, and motivate your thoughts.
     
  2. peanutpunk

    peanutpunk Level II

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    i don't need drugs to get high

    i was born high!!!! :maha:

    sry

    but yea im against drugs and all that jazz
     
  3. natskaya

    natskaya Level III

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    Aside from my person feelings and experiences with drugs, I believe there are medical, scientific, and spiritual applications for a number of them. Marijuana is, for example, one of the most effective anti-nausea drugs available, and is often prescribed for cancer patients dealing with the pain of chemotherapy. The alternatives are pills that cause depression, headaches, and dizziness - not the kind of thing you want to have to deal with if you're already suffering through what is essentially radiation poisoning.
     
  4. Ariesvexic

    Ariesvexic Level III

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    Well, I started just to experiment, just out of curiosity really. They are great tools for self exploration, and can be very worth while if used RESPONSIBLY. Do not bring drugs out into public, keep them in your house. I look at the world differently, but for the better ever since I started, hallucinogens are amazing.
     
  5. Commy

    Commy Moderator
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    Heh, what sort of drugs are you talking about? Recreational drugs or medicinal drugs? Because both of them are pretty broad topics.
     
  6. noncheatercheater

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    Until people are RESPONSIBLE, drugs shouldn't be legalized. Look at alcohol. It's a type of drug that's legal and people aren't responsible.

    I have smoked marijuana a couple of times but that was about it. It wasn't for me. No drug is. But I do not look down on people who do it (and obviously, I don't look down on people who need it), but I do find it irritating how people abuse that.

    I know a handful of people who did drugs and alcohol during their prime years and are now retarded idiots. Their personalities are down the drain. Only ONE person I know who has done hardcore stuff and has changed his life around and is one of the most.. amazing.. people ever. He's the ultimate role model. Anyway.. of topic.. yeah.. drugs + irresponsible people = not fun.
     
  7. bunnah

    bunnah Level III

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    no matter what recreational drug u take and no matter what the reason, sooner or later you brain will start to deteriorate. people that do take them just make clever excuses to why they are taking them..... its illegal for a reason... not because people take them irresponsibly, but becuase people that keep takin them end up having psychotic episodes and are a danger to themselves and others...
     
  8. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    Oh sorry, recreational of course.

    Actually, according to a recent sudy made by some of Britain's leading drug experts, most illegal drugs are less harmful than the two legal options. Alcohol came at fifth place and tobacco at ninth, out of 20. LSD, ecstasy, ghb, cannabis, among other, are less harmful than what you can get in the store today.
    Again, I don't belive that we should legalize just with one finger snap, but there should be more research on this, and it should be easier for scientists to get permits to do this.
     
  9. cardenal

    cardenal Level III

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    Drugs do damage your mind and your body.
    Tik [crystal meth] kills off brain cells, and you start coughing up bits of your lungs. It's really harmful.
    I work with people on drugs, and I've seen what drugs can do to you. Most of my friends are drug addicts. I've used drugs to the point where my mind has been affected. I can't see using drugs to be alright in any way.
     
  10. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    Not any drugs?
    Do you include legal ones sucha s alcohol and tobacco?
    Most people that do drugs, don't use heavy drugs. They stick to cannabis, ecsatsy,lsd etc. all which are less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco.
    If you belive that alcohol and tobacco should remain legal, how do you justify this?
    This is not to bash your argument, I only want to hear your explanation. =)
     
  11. cardenal

    cardenal Level III

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    [totally OT, but Virre, I have such a lot of respect for you. You argue your points so well, and in debate, I don't take offense from you at all, even if you are bashing my arguments, because debate is all about picking holes in theories, and arguing opinions :) ]

    no, people shouldn't use any drugs, including alcohol and tobacco.
    that said, I drink, and I smoke. and while I think that they are bad, I want them to stay legal, just because I'm selfish like that. I would try to prevent other people from using any drugs, which might be very hypocritical, but I've been drinking, smoking and doing drugs since I was 13 and they all became addictions a long time ago. I wouldn't wish addiction on anybody.
    and even the lighter drugs, with prolonged use can cause adverse effects to a person. prolonged use of cannabis can cause pyschosis, and cannabis is supposed to be one of the safest drugs to use.
    also, after prolonged use of drugs, you need to use more to get the same effect, and that can cause some people to move on to heavier drugs.

    and people will still use substances, even if they are illegal

    is there anything I haven't explained?
     
  12. Commy

    Commy Moderator
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    I guess the most commonly used drugs that many people use are alcohol and caffeine. But I don't think you will ever find a population where everyone is responsible in drug use. So in your case, those sorts of drugs would never be legalized. It is unfortunate that people abuse drugs, even the legal ones. I had a neighbour who pretty much survived on alcohol. Apart from a few things, he'd get his main energy from it, because alcohol does contain a lot of energy. Of course, he was in terrible health, but he's moved house now so I cannot keep up with him. Unless he changed his lifestyle, I can't imagine him living for long
    But I suppose getting high is a side effect? Some religions use psychoactive drugs to, in a sense, "get them closer to God".
    I was wondering how you got these drugs? Or how anyone else got these illegal drugs? And are they expensive? I've lived in a pretty sheltered environment. I've never taken drugs, or been offered drugs. I only know one person that dealt in that area, but I didn't know him well. Although I'm curious of what it would be like, I'm not curious enough to seek out people who could get me drugs. And how were you first exposed to them?
    I've said before, anything that isn't taken in moderation can be harmful. And drug abuse is a huge problem. There are some people psychologically or genetically susceptible to addiction, and are therefore more likely to suffer from it. It does depend on the drug though, acid (LSD) isn't considered an addictive drug, and apparently you get a tolerance to it if used too often that lasts for a few days. LSD itself has been used to treat extremely bad headaches in a series, called cluster headaches. And some drugs, such as ecstasy have been used in psychotherapy, as well as helping with brain cognition with people affected by Parkinson's Disease. I guess Virre could tell me, but i've heard there are some pretty bad after affects of acid, such as raising or lowering your body temperature, affecting your blood sugar level and causing insomnia.

    If you've heard of positive and negative reinforcement, using drugs is a form of abnormal learning via positive reinforcement. Drugs that are commonly abused by people affect the neurological system involved in rewarding yourself, or being motivated. And the neurological system gets affected the more you use them, the 'high' doesn't last as long, which would lead to more drug use.
    Responsible drug use I have no qualms about. But you need to be responsible, which takes effort, and when a person is on a high, it may affect how responsible they are. It would help to research the effects of the drug you intend to take, along with regulated measurements of the drug, and to make sure it doesn't affect the other aspects of your life. Hopefully they won't get caught. But you also need to choose the drug carefully, some drugs even in moderate amounts can prove highly addictive.
    As for drug prohibition, I think they should keep it up. From what I've read in this thread and what i've heard in general, there have been a large number of young people whose lives have been affected drastically because of drugs. And that's when it's illegal. There's a huge market for illegal drugs out there, and I imagine they are making a large profit.
    But if the prohibition was removed, I do wonder if some things would get better. If drugs were legal, and mass produced by pharmaceutical companies, that would ensure cleaner needles, which would reduce the risk of diseases such as HIV, which treatment of HIV uses money in production of drugs (medicinal) to counteract its effects. And if they were made legal, there would be more incentive for companies to research into drugs that are safer, and possibly be made more effective, which may also help medically.
    That being said, I can imagine that many stupid people out there would abuse it heavily, and the removal of such a prohibition would only end in tears, with the end result being that another prohibition would be enforced.
     
  13. Ariesvexic

    Ariesvexic Level III

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    How does one obtain them? You basically find a dealer, by asking around and talking to other people. Synthesizing chemicals, especially LSD can be an extremely complex process. The price depends, it can range from $5-15 dollars a "hit", which is usually LSD put onto a small paper square called blotter paper. The price depends on the supply and demand, it varies from city to city. Hope this clears things up.

    Oh, and pretty much any drug, prescription or not will build up a tolerance after a few days of use.
     
  14. Virre

    Virre Level IV

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    The same goes for your posts, I just wanted to make sure that it didn't sound like I was trying to glorify drugs. =)

    I agree, I would never try and talk someone into using drugs, but at the same time I feel that it's important that people get both sides of the story, otherwise people will continue to belive that the avarage drug user is some crackhead that robs for quick cash to get his fix.
    Cannabis can lead to psychosis, that's true. But it's still a very small possiblity. Saying that cannbis shouldn't be used because people might get a psychosis is a bit like saying that they shouldn't drive, as they might hit someone with the car. Most people that get a psychosis are also very vulnerable to this to start with, and that's one of the reasons I would like to see more studies on drug use. If a test could be made, to see if a person has tendency to get a psychosis, it would be great.

    Well first of all I should clearify what I meant.
    You get "high" when you use drugs, that's pretty much the only reason why you use it. If everything was normal, there would be no use for drugs.
    But what I meant was that I don't get high just to have a fun trip or to get giggly, as that would be a waste of time for me.

    Yes, many religions are known to have used mainly mushrooms, in order to get a religious experience. We have religion to thank for that. :)

    My first experience was cannabis. I had a friend who lived in Canada for five years, and the seem to be very liberal about drug use there. I figured that I should do some research about it and then try and see for myself if it was anything like that anti-drug information I had recieved when I was younger. It turned out to be less dangerous.
    Also, I live in the capital city of Sweden, so it's easy to get your hands on a few grams every now and then. There's almost always someone at a party or club that you speak to, that knows someone who deals and are happy to help, even if they're not using at the moment.
    The price for LSD here ranges between 15-22$/hit, and you usually take two hits (even if one would be sufficient). Cannabis cost around 75$ for 5 grams.

    Indeed, and that's also what I like about it. It usually takes between a week or two to get your tolerance level back, so unless you want to be poor, you can't really use it too often.
    Also, the day after you're very exhausted, and even though you value and appreciate your experience alot, you're fed up with drugs for some time.
    Acid was also used in drug rehabiliation, and I can really see why it worked.

    The after effects aren't that bad, you get very sweaty, you need to drink alot of water so you don't get dehydrated and yes, you do have some trouble falling asleep. But you still get tired, so you're bound to fall asleep as long as you lay down.

    Another thing about drug prohibition, if they made drugs legal there would be a big boost in the economy. Money that could be used for more research about the long term effects of certain drugs, how to use them responsibly and money that could be used in nursing.
    I would like to see some drugs being legal, but under strict government control.
     
  15. cardenal

    cardenal Level III

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    Most drugs were created with the intentionof using them for medical purposes.
    eg. if you have an epistaxis [a very serious nosebleed] they give you cocaine to snort, because it cauterizes the blood vessels in your nose.
    So, drugs do certain good things for you, but I think that some of them do a lot more harm than good.

    It would do wonders for the economy, I agree. But by legalising it, do you mean that you could get it through a prescription, or...?
    Could you clarify on that point a bit?
     
  16. Cheeto

    Cheeto Level IV

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    drugs are for bugs :arf:

    that is my...somewhat intelligent opinion
     
  17. bunnah

    bunnah Level III

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    lol yes...... very intelligent.......
     
  18. soccermadness90

    soccermadness90 Level III

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    I have no qualms about medicinal drugs.

    But regarding recreational drugs? And the responsible usage of them? Can you all classify the difference between recreational and medicinal drugs? What group does drugs like heroine come under.

    All drugs do damage on your brain and i feel that by this fact alone that the usage of drugs should be prohibited(unless for medicinal purposed where by the consequences of not using the drug outweighs the bodily harm done).

    By responsible usage of recreational drugs, do you all mean that one has to limit the usage of drugs and not be controlled by the withdrawal symptoms? I would like to ask how is that possible if that is possible at all. Quitting the abusive usage of drugs is already difficult enough. I can imagine the immense, sublime and perfect self control one must have to take drugs(not medicinal drugs of course!) and at the same time limit its usage.
     
  19. Commy

    Commy Moderator
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    Recreational drugs generally affect the central nervous system. So marijuana, cocaine, LSD fit under those categories, but some recreational drugs also have medicinal use, which I've mentioned before.
    Medicinal drugs help in the treatment of diseases, or to prevent diseases from happening. A medicinal drug like zanamivir will inhibit further replication of the influenza virus, and there are a lot more medicinal drugs out there then there are recreational drugs.
    If you're talking about recreational drugs, not all of them damage your brain. They may affect it, but if you get addicted to drugs such as ecstasy your brain recovers pretty well after you've stopped taking it. LSD itself is a reasonably safe drug to your body. It isn't toxic, so it doesn't harm you. It is one of the drugs that doesn't cause compulsive drug seeking behaviour, because if you use LSD, you develop an extremely fast tolerance to it, more so than other drugs, so you can't use it for extended periods. And if you take into account what is harmful to your brain, you might as well ban alcohol or smoking. Although, there are some drugs, like solvents, that are poisonous to your brain, there are also drugs like mescaline that don't damage your brain.
    Yes, quitting drug addiction can be pretty bad.Yes, limiting the dosage of the drug would be an important step of responsible drug use. Also, being responsible would mean knowing the effects of the drug, not doing things that would endanger yourself while under the influence of the drugs, such as driving, and not forcing others to take the drug. I wasn't referring to "not be controlled by the withdrawal symptoms", if you suffer from withdrawal symptoms you have already become addicted to that drug, and have crossed the line of being responsible. By not allowing drug use to affect other aspects of your life I would consider responsible.
     
  20. soccermadness90

    soccermadness90 Level III

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    in my country i am being influenced by the government advertisements saying things like "you will get addicted once you start" and being addicted means that you suffer from withdrawal symptoms. So are you trying to say that once you start you will not immediately get addicted?

    Also, in your terms of defining responsible usage of drugs, one cannot take drugs for the long term as ultimately, in the long term, one will get addicted.
     

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